So I hope you all had a great holiday. I went back home and also was able to spend another night at Ravi’s parents’ house.
The visit was fine… I still am not big on the overnight camp-outs with his parents and it peaves me that R and I can’t really act like a couple. Other than the usual kind of feeling like I’m walking on egg shells, it was fine. It’s just something I’m going to have to get used to right?
I was a little deflated to learn that the India invite really only stands if R and I are in a “formal” relationship..meaning…we’d basically have to be engaged. Otherwise, it’d be too much scandal either of us would really want to deal with. Since I am super happy with where my relationship is at and know that R and I are going to end up together some way or another, I’m not big on rushing things. I know this is totally atypical, but I’m not pushing for engagment (like I sense most girls do once they know they want to be with the guy). R seems kind of willing to go for it, but I’m not rushing things on the account of his family.
I’m also feeling tense because R’s mom saw my shoes in his apartment and freaked out about us being improper and spending the night together. To me it’s absurd because we are 28 and 33 years old. R just ignores it and truly doesn’t care, but her intrusiveness still bothers me.
The thing is, his parents are always decent to my face but I know there is all this other stuff going on behind the scenes. I don’t get it…I only will bring up Indian subjects when I’m there (his mom won’t respond to any other kind of conversation), I actually painted his mom’s toes/nails and did her makeup as we chit chatted nicely, and we are respectful of one another when we are in eachothers’ presence. But then I hear about all this criticism and moaning they direct towards R behind the scenes. It feels so…passive-aggressive. R is used to this, but it kind of drives me nuts. It feels like an indirect invasion of my privacy and I’m not used to it being such an independent person. I know when we drive home from his parents house it feels like we can finally throw off our straight-jackets…
I guess this is not a feeling I want to live with on a daily basis…suppressed and judged based things I’m not used to like pre-feminist notions. I really can’t see myself living close to them or visiting more often than once every two months. R seems ok with this and ok with however we want to define our realtionship with them, but these terms are not going to be favorable to his parents.
His mom is also asking that I learn Telugu, go to the temple, and basically that I do everything on their terms. It feels like a lot of pressure and I can’t help but wonder why they can’t imagine meeting me on some of my terms (?).
All I know is that I have a personality where if I know something is demanded of me I will reject it–quickly. I’m happy to come to things on my own and do many Indian things freely, but if I’m pressured…it’s over. And R’s mom doesn’t know how to do anything without a backhanded pressure style.
Basically, she is afraid he is becoming too American and that he no longer values his Indian culture. This breaks my heart because I think he is SOOOO Indian in the best ways possible. He is also incredibly respectful and accommodating to his mother who continually puts pressure on him and puts him down.
In the end, R and I will just have to perpetuate the Indian tradition in the way we want without considering her demands and insecurities. And in the end, they might not be able to see me/us/our kids as much if she can’t just let us be and accept our choices–in front of and behind our backs.
It’s just a bummer that I don’t know if all this pressure and hounding will go away or not with engagement (typically Indians understand and respect couples when they are “formal.”) I think I have a lot of stuff to square away with R…and that aint happening before March (Indian trip). 
December 2, 2008 at 1:32 am
NK, I think its really nice that his mom sees you as her daughter in law. Sound like the more she gets to know you, the more she likes you. Maybe, she is already daydreaming of you giving her grand kids, hehe.
Just remember that you have to get along with R and not theyre perents for the most part. You relationship with his parents is going to be a little give and take. Then again there is a lot of compromise in every relationship.
Moms give chores to kids and always seem to ctitize them, its not always to belittle them but bring out the best sometimes. Me and my mom share a very non traditional relationship in this regard, we have just learnt to disagree. I can almost get married and turn up with a girl at my doorstep and it should be fine, lol. They would have a ton of explaning to do to the rest of the family, not that part would be hard to do, even for R’s parents.
I feel you are very angred, coz you are not able to show affection to R in their precence. Its just that his parents have been raised that way, very traditional. Even, I’m not too PDA friendly, If I know someone well and we get along very well for some time, affection just naturally comes. As time passes things will get better.
Yes, Indian girls are very pre-feminist, they are taught to cook and clean, be respectful to elders (read parents). They typically marry into the family ( read arranged marriages) and bring big fat dowrys. Such are my motivating factors not to marry an Indian girls, hehe. But,my mom is Indian, she’s pretty cool (conservative yes) and you must be able to gauge how things have been hard for me, from R’s experience, but the fact is she opening up, its just talking time though.
Please dont think of setting conditions and rules for R’s mom. You will just be alienating her more.Just coax her into your ways. If relationships were that easy, life would be a lot easier for a lot of us
.
Like always I think, R will give you the best advice coz he knows how things work in his family. I just realized I typed in a huge reply, hehe.
December 2, 2008 at 4:21 am
I really like 6mile’s advice, “please don’t think of setting conditions and rules for R’s mom. You will just be alienating her more. Just coax her into your ways.” I really did like that statement, and I think perhaps he might be correct in this case. I know how it can feeling hard-headed feminine-type of correctness vs. pre-feminist behaviors.
I think, with it being so early in the meeting of his parents, that I wouldn’t go overboard in rebelling against his parents, but at the sametime, you do need to make your stand with R on the subject. Honestly, I do think perhaps my mom is more like the Indians than traditional Americans LOL. Growing up, I was not allowed to date until 16, guys were NOT allowed in my bedroom, I wasn’t supposed to go into theirs, if you aren’t married then you are NOT allowed to sleep in the same bed in her house, Corningware is the dish of choice, everything is yes ma’am/no ma’am, must respect elders, etc.. etc. BUT, that being said, women to my mom are NOT to be subservient, but equals to men. It would be nice if R’s parents had moved more into MY mom’s state of mind.. it would make it easier on you I believe LOL.
December 2, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Aww, thanks you guys. Just blowing off some steam a little… I mean I hear you in that I can’t set conditions/rules for his mom… but why does she think she is entitled to set them for me?? I just can’t get over the entitlement these parents think they have (?). I KNOW it’s cultural and all…but I just cannot conceptualize it on a personal level.
December 2, 2008 at 5:50 pm
6mile has some good insight.
I agree that even though it seems like she’s rushing things, it’s good that R’s mom is already thinking in terms of a “formal” relationship. That means she’s accepted you as a suitable match for R and trusts him to make this decision on his own. To me, that even cuts through the passive-agressive crap she’s pulling, which in my opinion, a lot of moms do to their kids.
Re: PDA. G and I are married and we still aren’t very affectionate with each other around his family. I occasionally go up to him and give him a quick squeeze on his shoulder or pat on the back, but I don’t go further than that. He pretty much avoids contact altogether. We’re usually very snuggly, so it took some getting used to. (Remember the scene in The Namesake where Max puts her hand on Gogol’s knee? This reminded me of that.)
Re: doing everything on their terms. Weren’t you trying to learn Telegu and going to the temple before you met R’s parents? If so, then as long as they’re not being ridiculously demanding about it (eg, only speaking to you in Telegu and making you go to temple every week), then it shouldn’t be a big deal to throw them a bone occasionally. Do they know what terms you expect? Let them know what your expectations are. Although I agree with ara in that you shouldn’t go overboard in rebelling, you also shouldn’t go overboard in bending to their every whim. Discuss this with R so that he’s on board with your expectations and can help navigate things with his parents, too.
In the end, all you can do is live your lives and demonstrate that you’re willing to do things that you’re comfortable with and that you’re not preventing R from doing things that he’s comfortable with.
And now I’m just going to stop rambling and post this since I’ve been interrupted 18 times while writing — work gets in the way of fun yet again!
December 2, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Aw, you guys are all totally awesome! D you are RIGHT that I was and am pretty pumped and willing to incorpoate “Indianness” into my life but when I sense that I’m being coerced into ANYTHING I reject it like a bad kidney. With R’s mom, she’s never happy…nothing is ever enough for her. He’s used to this but to me it’s exasperating.
I’m actually thinking about turning this blog into sort of my East-West relationship blog. It’s funny because I still stand by everything I said before venturing down this road: you should be open to Indian things, try and meet the parents on their terms, extend the olive branch and all… I wouldn’t change my behavior in how I have accommodated them thus far. This way I can always know for myself that I did everything within my power to try and meet them on their terms. What I would prepare others for is knowing that your efforts can go largely unnoticed in traditional families (Why wouldn’t she want to spend the night at our house? Why wouldn’t she want to get married in India? Why wouldn’t she want to adopt every part of our superior culture into her life?!). If they are really traditional, the parents will often want more and more until you’re blue (or brown? –horrible joke, I know..levity, levity..) in the face. I would say after you’ve give your all you then have to determine how far you are willing and comfortable to go for the long haul… Anyway, I digress. Thanks again for your good thoughts.
December 3, 2008 at 2:39 am
I’m not surprised they want you to be engaged before going to India – even just being engaged is somewhat lenient. M and I toyed going to India after we were engaged to buy wedding stuff and meet some of his family. But M’s parents thought even though we were engaged, it was completely improper – they wanted us to wait until we were married.
And I can relate to the judgments about spending the night together. Most of the time when M and I were dating, he lived in a different state, but he moved back and stayed with his parents before we married. During that time, he never spent the whole night with me in my apartment – he’d wake up at 2 or 3:00am and drive home just to be there before his parents got up (they are very early risers), because they would have been horrified if they knew he was with me. I hated it – and felt the same way you do. He’s in his 30s – not some teenager! But I put up with it, and I’ve got to say waking up with him now that we’re married is a very sweet reward. His parents also thought it was horribly improper for him to fly to California to meet my family and stay with us before we were engaged – even though we stayed in separate rooms. (I actually had to write letter telling them how important it was to me that he meet my Dad before he died. After I finished writing it, M asked if I’d also write a note excusing him from PE
)
Passive-aggressive behavior is so frustrating! I’m so sorry you have to deal with that. I think R really needs to help you by saying politely but firmly, if you have a concern, let’s talk about it with NK here or not at all. I know that seems scary, but it’s only fair that if an issue they have concerns you, you be allowed to be present when it is discussed instead of things going on behind your back. Maybe in time, as his parents get more comfortable with you, you can work toward that as a goal. I think it’s about trying to find ways to make the passive-aggressive behavior less effective – because right now, it’s seems like it’s seems like it’s really effective since it’s bothering you so much. Also, maybe R can help remind him about the things you are doing to benefit them – if they can’t see it for themselves, they need someone to help them see it.
Keep chugging along – I’m still optimistic you’ll find a way to make it work! And btw, M wanted me to tell you he thinks you are a great writer. Hope that makes you smile!
December 3, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Hi there! I’m a new reader, I found your blog via gorigirl, hope you don’t mind if I jump in.
I’m married to a Chinese man, not an Indian one, but I could totally relate to the whole “formal relationship” thing. My husband and I live in China, and the first time I went to his hometown, a fairly small village, I had to stay with one of his cousins, I couldn’t even stay at the same house as him. He was 33 at the time, I was 26. The second time we visited we were already engaged so it was cool for us to stay in the same house. It wasn’t even as if his parents were personally opposed — his mom had passed away years ago and his dad was 86 at the time and a bit out of it — it was more the whole village, the neighborhood gossips, the sisters in law, the general community. I think in this regard India and China are somewhat similar in that regard, which is definitely something that is hard for Westerners, who are not really used to their actions affecting the greater community as a whole, or the concepts of “losing face” or “disgrace” being so all-encompassing. It definitely takes some getting used to.
I do think it is a good sign, however, that you’ve been extended the invitation, strings attached notwithstanding. I hope it works out for you to take the trip.
December 3, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Hi, Jessica, welcome! What a pleasure to read your post. It helps so much to hear from others like me and to gain a richer perspective on this all. CT…as always…your posts always ring true straight through me. Everyone needs their very own CT!
December 30, 2008 at 9:40 pm
[...] RSS feed for updates on this topic.Powered by WP Greet BoxI was just perusing through another blog (http://neokalypso.wordpress.com/2008/12/01/but-the-india-trip-is-on-one-condition/#comments(see comment # 5) about an intercultural relationship, and found this comment there, “What I [...]
December 30, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Another Jessica here, who also found you through GoriGirl : ) I’m married to an Indian guy too (I’m American)…anyway, I was perusing through your site and something in one of your comments actually (#5) really struck me. It’s where you said “What I would prepare others for is knowing that your efforts can go largely unnoticed in traditional families (Why wouldn’t she want to spend the night at our house? Why wouldn’t she want to get married in India? Why wouldn’t she want to adopt every part of our superior culture into her life?!). If they are really traditional, the parents will often want more and more until you’re blue (or brown? –horrible joke, I know..levity, levity..) in the face.”, …so I decided to write a blog about coping mechanisms for when the in-laws don’t even notice your efforts. I can TOTALLY relate to the frustration with feeling like it’s never really enough…no matter how far backwards you bend. I hope you’ll check out my post and leave a comment. I’m really glad to have found your blog! Anyway, you can see the post here
December 30, 2008 at 10:09 pm
THANK YOU Jessica!!! I sooo look forward to reading your blog entry!
Best,
NK
January 6, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Aditya’s response (he’s rather chatty this morning): R needs to work more at managing expectations on both sides of the equation. I knew he did this when we were first dating with regards to me – telling me about what his parents would expect from me, and general do’s and don’t’s. But apparently he also did this on his parents’ side, telling them what they should expect from me, what my interests were, and how I would be different from what they might typically expect in a “potential daughter-in-law.” Of course, Aditya is quite comfortable telling his parents these sorts of things – for instance, he told his mom he would be unlikely to marry a Bengali girl when they were discussing marriage at one point.
My feelings on the matter: know what you’re comfortable with, and just ignore any expectations that come to you through third parties.
January 7, 2009 at 8:47 pm
I think R is doing a decent job of this… when his mom asks all these questions about learning Telugu (and I’m SURE if I will let her live with me–though R hasn’t told me about that yet)…R makes no promises. I think he tells them I’m generally open to many things “their way” but that R and I have to decide these things on our own. He did ask them why they didn’t engage me in conversation more when we met…but R knows deep down that that’s just what kind of people they are (they only really talk about Telugu stuff and Telugu families). I think he can keep doing this, but I think he also fears setting them off.
I know R’s parents have asked him a ton of kind of personal questions about me: how much I make, “Do I drink whiskey??” (his mom only sees white girls doing this in the movies), and all about my family (are they divorced, etc?). On some of these things that are less personal I encouraged R to tell them, “Hey mom and dad why don’t you ask NK that next time you see her! She’s love to tell you about her family, etc!”
So it’s all about creative problem solving
July 1, 2009 at 3:01 am
“”His mom is also asking that I learn Telugu, go to the temple, and basically that I do everything on their terms. It feels like a lot of pressure and I can’t help but wonder why they can’t imagine meeting me on some of my terms (?). “”
Sigh.
Your question is a perfectly understandable and valid one from our perpsective, but from the Indian perspective it is neither valid nor understandable.
In Indian culture, the daughter-in-law is meant to “adjust” to her husband’s family, not the other way around.
That is why your potential future mother-in-law has no qualms about suggesting (demanding?) that you learn Telugu and go to Mandir. And, let me warn you, that is just the beginning, just the beginning….
July 1, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Well if I’m going to do this, I’m throwing a lot of those expectations out the door. R keeps telling them that he does not expect me to cook their food or even speak their language. Don’t get me wrong, I still feel the pressure, but if I want to make this work I have to figure out how i can still feel free and like myself in this context. Will it happen? I don’t know. I’m not 100% certain.
July 1, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Do this, learn 5 or 10 basic Telegu phrases and learn one or two dishes that you can serve your in-laws when they come to visit. That should be enough to satisfy them.
Or, offer to meet with your mother-in-law once a month (or once every two – three months) to teach her some English phrases in exchange for a few Telegu ones. She should be satisfied.
Or does she already know English? If she does, no need to learn Telegu! But if she doesn’t, it’s only fair that she learn some in order to communicate with you.
July 1, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Hey sounds absolutely fair to me! She has lived in the US for 30 years yet is hesitant to speak English. I have learned about 4 full Telugu phrases already and have taken a recipe down from his cousin. I plan to know a few dishes.
If only it were that simple…
Upon out last visit R’s mom made a big meal just to get us to stay longer–even though we told her when we had to go. She also tried to plan the next trip within a few weeks right during our visit (we live 4.5 hours away). Nothing will ever be good enough–even if I could speak Telugu fluently or cook 35 curries. Something I will just have to learn to live with.
Seeing them ever 2-3 months?! Sounds like a breeze to me! It’s been every month at this point.
Sigh…
July 1, 2009 at 5:31 pm
And, even when R says he won’t be available next month, she tries to pull “we are just going to show up in your city then.” Totally not cool. And R seems pretty hung up on “not hurting her feelings.” HELP!
July 1, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Who are you Been There? Tell us your story…
July 1, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Ahh…. I’m someone who’s “been there”.
I know that when you marry a desi, you marry the entire family, really.
Maybe you can tell her that your schedule permits you to visit once every 6 weeks for an entire weekend. That way you can spend Friday and Saturday night, or at least Saturday. But they will know to mark their calanders for that every six week period.
You see, desi families socialize a lot with each other. That IS the social life. Whereas in USA, our families are not really seen as our “social circles”. In India, your “social circle” is your family first, then friends. So for R’s mom, she probably feels lonely when you guys are not around, and being that she does not know fluent English, unless she has a lot of friends also from Andhra where she lives – who would she socialize with?
This is why Indian parents hope that their kids marry other desis, coz they would willingly (or at least act like their were willing) be the social circle for their in-laws.
I think you have to take some weekend classes at the gym or pottery or something in order to have an excuse not to be with them every weekend.
Wait! Take an Indian cooking or Bharat Natyam course or something! That would be an excuse that would make them smile!
Or, make A LOT of noise during sex at their place, that should be enough for them to not invite you up so often.