I found the following quote on a site I used to comment on and still occasionally read. It’s from someone named CulturePhile and if they stumble onto this site, I would be happy for them to respond!
“The thing is this; western Indophiles like all the artsy cultural stuff – the clothing, the dance, the poetry, the arts, the languages, etc, of India. But the day to day cultural grind – overbearing and smothering family and all that, na, we can’t deal with that. But that is the core of Desi culture.”
Before I met R, I thought I had a pretty decent handle on “Indian culture.” I had BEEN to India for a month, lived with an Indian dude (among 4 other dudes) in college & met his family, lived an Indian gal post college (who is now a close friend) & met her family, and had read some Lahiri books. I wouldn’t say I was a western Indophile, but I’d say I had a working knowledge of what “Indian culture” was all about. And I liked it.
I knew the moms could get kind of crazy about their sons, I knew my Indian peers tended to be incredibly reverent of their parents all the while forging their identities in America, and I KNEW the food was, like, the best in the whole world.
For the most part, the Indians I had met were Northies and sort of accepted/embraced America at least half way if they lived here. From what I head, I gathered most Indian parents would like their kids to end up with Indians, but I had met a few mixed couples (and even Indian parents of them) and didn’t see there was too much strife. My old roomate’s parents (the Indian guy) were probably not thrilled I was living with their son, nonetheless, they were incredibly decent and kind to me. All I had to do was say I loved their spices and most Indians were putty in my hands! And so it went with most of the other Indians I had met: show just a tad of interest and they will give you the keys to their vibrant and intriguing castle! This was true until I tried dating one of them…
Specifically, **and this is important y’all**, I ended up dating a son from one of the most Traditional types of families in India. R’s family are Telugu Raju’s and have an incredible amount of pride in their particular culture. So much so, they don’t even really relate to what is going on in the rest of India beyond about 3-4 hours outside their small town. They have lived in the US for the past 30 years…but not really. R’s mom runs a very Indian household, they ventured back to India for months at a time almost every year, and only a few times has anyone non-Telugu been in their house. His dad works here so he has sort of a sense of who/what Americans are but his mom has never worked & does not have this sense. Also, they are Raju’s…yes Raju’s. The warriers, the staunch Hindus (R doesn’t know one Raju who has converted to Christianity), the top of the totem pole in India. So, suffice to say, as an extremely traditional family, they are really big on preserving their culture…and not really inclined to share it with anyone else.
So this was all news to me! I had always known Indian mothers who worked, Indians who had friends outside their culture, and Indians who traveled. Nonetheless, I kept telling R, ”Pish…I GOT this! Don’t worry! I know Indians!”
Like a lot of things in life, little did I know until I was on the inside of it. Since getting over the initial shock between Indians I had known in the past and R’s family, I have learned to slowly work with what I and R have. There have been times where I have felt angry, resentful, and that R and I really cannot work together because the family structure & expectations (a huge issue) are so different. I began to think about Indian culture less intellectually and more how it made me feel. Before, I had kind of a superficial working knowledge, but now I am really starting to *know* it in my heart. Sometimes I still think it’s quite beautiful and other times I am totally irritated by it. And I know now, I’ll never quite see it the way I did before.
As an outsider of Traditional Telugu, Raju culture, it can feel sort of lonely and more distressingly, it can make me feel disconnected from R at times. As I have said before on here, I don’t know R when he is Indian R. He has been better about showing me he’s the same R when he’s with his family, but at first it was very shocking. It’s hard to keep trying to engage his parents in conversation and let them into the very modern relationship R and I have without getting blank expressions or under-the-radar-but-there disapproval. However, despite these things, I am at a point where I realize there are lots of variations of Indianness, the cultures, social orders, and so on. Through R, my knowledge of Indian culture has expanded ten-fold and branched out in ways I never expected. The bottom line is, if I want R and I to work, I just need to make this one intercultural situation work for me.
So we work on it…slowly. At first I put myself all out there for his family. I “worked it” to try and meet them on their terms (bringing them a traditional (and pricey) gift, not touching R, speaking some Telugu words, keeping discussion topics to “Telugu” to not alienate anyone”). I’ve also been accepting of the fact that I’m kind of a scandal right now since we aren’t “committed” (married). It basically infuriates me that his parents think we aren’t committed to eachother when I know in my heart I am just as committed to him today as I will be in 10 years. But I’d still go visit, put on a smiling face, and act accordingly. Some Indian familes might have taken to my efforts more, but his really does not try and understand R and my relationship in “modern” terms. Now I’ve decided to pull back. I’m not going with R to his next family visit…not out of spite…but to give him and his family some time together. I’m doing it to give myself some time and space, too. If R and I do end up together we will always be doing things as a unit and though my level of committment remains the same, life will change for the both of us. It will just be R and I to decide everything for ourselves. He knows that, I know that, so given this, I do have some compassion for his family as the center will shift from them to us (not something Traditional Indians really welcome).
While I don’t think I ever was or am currently an Indophile, I have really learned a lot by thrusting my heart out there towards R’s parents. And this has encompassed both the good and the bad. When I really think about it, I wouldn’t have done it any other way.
January 8, 2009 at 6:23 am
As long as you can say you don’t think you would have done it any other way, then I think you are in the correct place in your life. I say go for it and don’t let go of the good thing you have over a few small road humps that cone into your path
January 11, 2009 at 8:04 pm
This is a really great post, and it sounds like you’ve been thinking a fair amount about the topic. I hope writing it out helped too.
About “indophilia” – well, I truly have difficulty wrapping myself around the idea of loving any particular aspect of a culture just because it is a part of that culture. There is very little that connects, say, the modern poetry of Bengalis with Therukoothu of the Tamil Nado. To be a fanboy of both because they’re “Indian” seems to be missing the whole point of what a culture is. I think it’s very important to recognize, as you do above, that India is not one monolithic culture – something that I think it is hard for Americans to realize, given how recent a history our country has, and how much of our culture is based upon what we as an immigrant people say it is – not what our ancestors have been doing for a hundred generations. (Note: not saying that the people of India don’t have any active ability to define themselves today, or anything like that, just that it’s probably not as large a part of their nation as it seems to be to us American upstarts.)
I think it’s good that you’re starting to figure out what’s possible for you as an individual with respect to R’s culture. Balance is important, and seeking what’s healthy for you is important.
January 12, 2009 at 1:26 pm
I had an old teacher who was a bit of an Indophile, I suppose. He had a PhD in Hindi drama so I suppose it went with the territory.
I run in to a LOAD of Sinophiles living in China. We poke a bit of fun at them at times, the types who arrive in China and start studying Tai Chi and calligraphy and drinking tea every meal and getting accupuncture. Most of the time these people are in love with a concept of China that doesn’t really exist in the real world. Perhaps the blogger writing about Indophiles was also thinking more of Westerners in India … I am sure India gets its fair share of Westerners who are more Indian than the Indians, so to speak (in fact, I’d be willing to bet that this phenomenon actually began in India). There was a good book, the name escapes me at the moment, written about Tibet and Westerners objectification of Tibet, turning it into this kind of Shangrila, this mythical sort of place that is disconnected from the realities of Tibet (old Tibet was actually a pretty grim place). Westerners do this more to fill some sort of longing within themselves, projecting their ideas of this remote, distant, exotic place onto real people and places that are actually quite everyday.
It is all very tied into the idea of Orientalism. I tend not to subscribe to the idea that our marriages with Easterners are manifestations of Orientalism, but some might disagree with me!
January 12, 2009 at 10:18 pm
thelocaldialect, Aditya would probably have a lot of fun discussing this topic with you – he was an English Lit & Religious Studies major in college, with focuses on post-colonial studies (English) and modern Hinduism (Religion). He can go off on Orientalism for hours.
He also tends to not see me as either expressing colonial fascist-might or an oriental fascination for marrying him, too. 
…or, at least, I hope he doesn’t.
January 12, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Expressing colonial fascist might??? I don’t know ANYONE who does that!!!!
January 13, 2009 at 3:25 am
I was just tying it into hiss post-colonial studies stuff – sometimes some of the things he’d read would go off the deep end like that, or go a bit too post-modern for me to take it seriously.
January 18, 2009 at 1:22 pm
I love this post. I know quite a few people I would classify as “Indophiles” actually. They think “Yoga” and “Spiritual Enlightenment” when they think of India, and they romantically fantasize about living in an Ashram and meditating all day.
I’m planning a trip to India soon to visit with the family and mostly to give my 3 1/2 year old some exposure to the culture and language and let him bond with some extended family. My “indophile” friends can’t imagine why part of me is hesitant to go because they imagine that life in India must be so romantic and spiritual, and they just can’t understand the dread I face about the day-to-day family stuff I know will be a struggle. Not that I feel totally negative about my trip…that’s not it. I’m excited to go in many ways, and looking forward mostly to the extended family help I will get with my kids, but I’m also not clueless and I know there will be boundary issues to be dealt with, privacy stuff, etc.
Anyway, it sounds to me like you’re really dealing with the nitty gritty of making an intercultural relationship work and don’t even come close to being an Indophile. I’m really happy for you that you’ve come to peace about pulling back a little with R’s family. I think that’s a very important step, one that is really hard to make, at least it was for me.
One thing that struck me was where you wrote, “If R and I do end up together we will always be doing things as a unit … It will just be R and I to decide everything for ourselves. He knows that, I know that, so given this, I do have some compassion for his family as the center will shift from them to us (not something Traditional Indians really welcome).”
I’m assuming you’ve had this conversation with R since you write that he knows that, but I will caution you that even in marriage this is not an easy thing to do for some Indians. I wrongly assumed when I married K that once we were “official”, it would be just he and I to decide everything for ourselves. But this continues to be a struggle for me (although thankfully less so each year). In the end, I think we end up making most major decisions as a unit, but going against his parents wishes is not always easy or natural for K. If I had done anything differently, it would have been to anticipate this struggle and talk about it extensively before getting married rather than just assume.
It sounds like you’re in a great place though! Yea!
January 27, 2009 at 9:21 pm
I found the following quote on a site I used to comment on and still occasionally read. It’s from someone named CulturePhile and if they stumble onto this site, I would be happy for them to respond!
“The thing is this; western Indophiles like all the artsy cultural stuff – the clothing, the dance, the poetry, the arts, the languages, etc, of India. But the day to day cultural grind – overbearing and smothering family and all that, na, we can’t deal with that. But that is the core of Desi culture.”
THAT WAS ME.
Stumbled across your blog just now, funny.
I have taken initiation into a Hindu sect and I have seen so many non-Indians subsume their identities into the larger Hindu/Indian culture in the name of “spirituality” and lose a part of themselves along the way.
Usually after a few or several years of that they finally “come into their own” and again take to the positive aspects of their own indigenous cultures and renounce the negative aspects of desi culture that they held onto out of ignorance.
Having lived in India for many years and knowing several inter-cultural couples and the problems they go through (often ending in divorce), I do not recommend any non-desi becoming romantically involved with a desi, no matter how “desi-ized” the non-desi fancies herself/himself to be.
Especially if the non-desi partner is a woman.
Desi culture is really hard on women.
January 27, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Pardesi: thanks for replying. I thought your comments were really interesting over on the cbc site.
Personally, I would not date a totally traditional Inidan in India or aborad. My situation works because my guy is pretty Americanized…intellectually…but his heart is still Indian (his roots!) and that’s cool with me! Works well
. I don’t think I need to be desi-ized at all to make it work…
January 28, 2009 at 4:17 pm
NewKalypso
Sounds good.
The thing is young American Desi men and women are of course very Americanized and would not require you to desi-ize yourself. The boyfriends and girlfriends are not the issue – THEIR PARENTS ARE!
Basically unless a desi boyfriend’s parents are dead or have already abandoned him for whatever reason, I would not recommend anyone to enter into an intimate relationship with a desi guy. But that’s just me.
January 28, 2009 at 10:27 pm
I think that writing off a whole group of people based on what country they’re from – or their parents are from – is pretty prejudiced, frankly. People are individuals, and no two families are identical either.
January 28, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Though I understand what you are trying to say Pardesi, I would have to agree with GG on this one.
January 29, 2009 at 4:45 pm
GG has it right — you just have to find yourself the right desi boy.
Glad to hear that you’ve come to a tolerable place in your relationship, NK. Even with in-laws who like you, it can be difficult to adjust to new family dynamics.
January 29, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Well, D, that’s what I’m talking about.
The “adjusting” seems to be more on the part of the non-desi girlfriend than on the desi boyfriend. I mean, western parents are generally way more chilled out than desi ones so they would be more accepting of a desi boyfriend than the desi parents would be of a non-desi girlfriend. And therfore the non-desi girlfriends tend to go overboard in trying to placate the desi parents.
Basically the desi parents are putting the same stress on the non-desi gf that they would put on a desi bahu (desi daughter in law), and we all know the history, folklores, myths, movies and soap operas created around that relationship!!!
Desi parents need to either chill out or stop sending their sons to the West for work and education.
For the desi parents that live here, they need to assimilate or return to a place where there are little to no non-desi women to “lure” their sons away into their silky smooth arms!
I mean, you can’t expect to raise a family in the West and expect that your kids will not be more Western in mindset than not.
Simple mathematics, which desis are good at so they should have figured that one out a long time ago.
January 29, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Pardesi, I can’t say that I haven’t had similar thoughts to the ones you expressed above. But I realized at the end of the day you can’t change the parents and the way they are…you have to come to a place of tolerance and/or acceptance as you would with any “family not like yours” you’d marry into.
I think this point is interesting, I used to grapple with it:
Basically the desi parents are putting the same stress on the non-desi gf that they would put on a desi bahu (desi daughter in law), and we all know the history, folklores, myths, movies and soap operas created around that relationship!!!
See when you phrase it like this, aren’t you putting yourself in a place of powerlessness? R used to tell me all the time “Just be yourself and don’t allow yourself to be judged by whatever you think they might believe!” He also says half the time I make up what they “expect” in my own head–probably from researching and generalizing Indian culture a little *too* much sometimes. I’ve come to embrace this new notion much more than “Oh I need to do this/eat this/say this because it’s Telugu.”
I’ve made an active committment to sort of screen the things I’m willing to do/say before I act because I do sort of like to please. I’ve learned pleasing cannot be at my personal expense. I admit I DID do a lot of pleasing up front…which I still argue I think you do have to “work it” a little more for the Traditional family. But now I think just respecting them like I would any in-laws is just enough—it’s enough for R, too. R knows where I stand and he supports me 100%–that is the best thing of all this. He’s even OK with just visiting them once every few months. I figure that’s not so bad, and really, his family members are nice people—it’s just the comfort issue (as most of you are well aware of from reading this blog).
I can’t change his parents, but I can change my response to them. And R supports me 110% on that… and I feel much more empowered this way, too.
January 29, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Actually, I wasn’t referring to desi families in my post; I know plenty of people in relationships with people of the same culture who have problems with their in-laws. Every family is different no matter where they’re from. There’s very little chance that you’re going to end up with someone whose family is just like yours. Desi families just pose a different set of challenges, some of which can be generalized to other families (eg, most are very tight-knit), and some of which can’t.
January 29, 2009 at 10:21 pm
“I mean, western parents are generally way more chilled out than desi ones so they would be more accepting of a desi boyfriend than the desi parents would be of a non-desi girlfriend.”
Do you have any data to back this up, or are you just talking out of your own personal experience, which almost certainly exhibits a selection bias? I don’t believe that this generalization is true; it’s just that expectations are different from family to family and culture to culture.
“And therfore the non-desi girlfriends tend to go overboard in trying to placate the desi parents.”
How are you defining “overboard”? More than you think is psychologically healthy? Or just more than you would be willing to do? I don’t think going “overboard” to try to please someone is by any means a feature only of relationships between “non-desi girlfriends” and “desi parents” – it’s just the way some people act. If they’re comfortable with who they are and their choices – and are not doing anything immoral – then I don’t think you’re really in a position to judge.
“Basically the desi parents are putting the same stress on the non-desi gf that they would put on a desi bahu (desi daughter in law), and we all know the history, folklores, myths, movies and soap operas created around that relationship!!!”
My Indian in-laws have put exactly the same amount of stress on me, my husband’s sister, and my husband’s brother’s wife – that is, they have expected me to be happy with their son. I somehow think that’s manageable.
“Desi parents need to either chill out or stop sending their sons to the West for work and education. For the desi parents that live here, they need to assimilate or return to a place where there are little to no non-desi women to ‘lure’ their sons away into their silky smooth arms!”
While I think this stereotype of South Asians is rather insulting, I don’t see why any group that has immigrated here must “assimilate”. There are plenty of groups in the US that have a rich history here, have added much to our culture, and have not assimilated. Diversity of thought is part of this country’s strength.
January 30, 2009 at 12:32 am
Well, it seems like your desi boyfriends parents have accepted all of you ladies, so good. However, there are many desi parents who give their kids the ultimatum, “either dump her or we will cut you off”. And some of them do indeed. Although granted, some come around at some point, especially if a grandchild, preferably a boy, pops onto the scene.
By assimilate I mean, they have to accept us just as much as we are expected to accept them.
When I was living in India I put alot of effort into conforming to the surrounding culture and environment in terms of language, clothing, customs, diet etc. And most of all, in terms of accepting people and establishing relationships with them.
I expect desis to do the same when they come to my country.
February 1, 2009 at 9:49 pm
“Expressing colonial fascist might”
think Elizabeth Hasselback and Dr. Laura
February 1, 2009 at 9:59 pm
“I have taken initiation into a Hindu sect” – which one?
As far as I am aware, conversions to Hinduism are not theologically possible without assimilating with a Hindu family…
February 2, 2009 at 1:58 am
Expecting immigrants to assimilate into their new countries is colonial and fascist?
Expecting tourists visiting family to put some effort into meeting “halfway” is colonial and fascist?
You must suffer from some kind of inferiority complex if you think that.
My own grandparent back in the day (who was from a country not too far from Desiland) assimilated one hundred percent into his new country. He was required to anglicise his name and didn’t even have a place of worship at the time.
That much is no longer required but arey baba, what is wrong with assimilating as much as possible and as much as does not go against one’s personal or religious ethics?
Again, I have asked you over on your bibi’s site what exactly you mean by “assimilating with a Hindu family”??? And I also explained the requirements of my sect.
February 2, 2009 at 2:21 am
While I think the basic point that people coming to live in another country should try to make an effort to respect the culture, customs, etc. of their adopted country is a good one, I think the use of the word “assimilate” has such negative connotations that maybe we should try to avoid using it. To my mind, it brings up all kinds of very unpleasant imagery, everything from the Borg on Star Trek (“Resistance is futile…you WILL be assimilated!”) to historical references (forcing Native American children to leave behind all aspects of their culture and become “white,” just to take one example among hundreds of others in American history). You referenced your grandfather’s experience, Pardesi – might it have been better if he had NOT been forced to anglicize his name and/or leave behind his religion?
I’m only saying that there’s a long and rather unpleasant history associated with “assimilation,” so perhaps we can find another way to express these ideas.
February 2, 2009 at 3:32 pm
“Expecting immigrants to assimilate into their new countries is colonial and fascist?”
… what? its incredible the kind of non-sense you are coming up with PG… if you re-read the thread, you will realize that my comment was not a response to yours, but to GG & NK’s conversation a while ago.
Assimilating with Hindu family = formal or informal adoption / marrying into Hindu family.
Getting Diksha is not the same as converting to Hinduism. That’s like saying reading the Bible/Koran makes you Christian or Muslim.
There are prescribed ways of being accepted into a faith… and Hinduism requires assimilation into a Hindu family – the reason for this is that there’s no distinction between Hindu religion and Hindu culture… to identify yourself with one and not the other is incongruous with the nature of Hinduism.
February 2, 2009 at 4:27 pm
1. Aditya, can you provide me with a shastric sloka as evidence of what you are saying about marrying into a Hindu family in order to be a Hindu? Otherwise you are just giving your personal opinion.
2. OK. Your comment about “colonial fascist might” came just below mine about immigrants assimilating and tourists meeting halfway, therefore the confusion.
3. Back to the “Hindu” topic. I explained yesterday on your Bibi’s site that I use the word Hindu to orientate people who have otherwise never heard the name of our sect/sampradaya. The word Hindu itself is nowhere found in any of our shastras and therefore I’m not attached to it.
However, your example about reading the bible or quran does not apply. I have read both but I don’t claim to be christian or muslim because i have converted into their folds via their process of conversion, both are which vocal declarations in their prophets, taken up specific practices and associating in their sangas.
However, I have converted into my current faith via diksha (I don’t think you are familiar with that otherwise you would not compare it to merely reading a book), and conforming to other practices which are at the core of the religion.
Marriage is not a requirement for this. In fact, because there is a strong renunciate streak in this religion, marriage is not really encouraged, though of course it is allowed.
February 2, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Correction:
However, your example about reading the bible or quran does not apply. I have read both but I don’t claim to be christian or muslim because i have converted into their folds
SHOULD READ
I don’t claim to be christian or muslim because i have NOT converted into their folds
NOT NOT NOT.
February 2, 2009 at 7:32 pm
@PG: “Aditya, can you provide me with a shastric sloka as evidence of what you are saying about marrying into a Hindu family in order to be a Hindu? Otherwise you are just giving your personal opinion.”
First of all – Shastric Shlokas are not the all-encompassing treatise of Hinduism.
Secondly – The burden of proof is actually on you, since you are professing a “non-standard” understanding of Hinduism.
Remember my comment about out-Indian-ing Indians? Right… Unlike you, I have read The Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Bhagawad Gita, etc. in Sanskrit. My undergraduate study focused on Modern Hinduism and Postcolonial studies. So if you want to talk about Orientalism or Hindu Theology, bring it on. But don’t talk non-sense without backing it up with any specific facts/details.
February 2, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Aditya!!!!!!!!! I KNEW you would catch it!!!!
“Expressing colonial fascist might”
think Elizabeth Hasselback and Dr. Laura
February 2, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Ok, here’s what I basically think: Pardesi, YOU shouldn’t date an Indian guy. And neither should Dr. Laura or Elizabeth Hasselback!
Does that settle things? Hee eheheh..he.
February 2, 2009 at 8:10 pm
NeoKalypso
I agree with you that should not date an Indian guy and I have NO plan to do so.
Aditya
Like I said, I use the word “hindu” as an “orientating generalization” for people who ask me what my religion is and when I reply with Vaishnavism, they give a blank look because the have never heard of it. They seek some sort of clarification and I
say, “it can be considered a branch of Hinduism”.
I then go onto explain how “Hindu” is a misnomer for the various “dharmic” religions of South Asia, Vaishnavism being but one.
I have not taken diksha into Hinduism because there is not one monolithic entity by the name of “Hinduism” that anyone can take diksha into. However, there are various sampradayas and lineages that people can take diksha into or convert into.
So the word “Hindu” is just something I use to orientate people with the general background of my belief system.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Vaishnavas employ “archan”, “puja”, “kirtan”, “seva”, “yatra”, “parikrama”, “mahotsava”, “sadhana”, “japa”, “smaran”, “dhyan”, etc. This terminology is not used by Abrahamic faiths, but it is used by other faiths that consider themselves “hindu”, not just Vaishnavas. So therefore, to differentiate myself from Abrahamic faiths I use the word “hindu”, sometimes, when needed. After a person is orientated and can place me and my religion outside of the Abrahamic fold, I drop the term like a hot potatoe because really, I am not a Hindu and my religion is not called “Hinduism”.
Once they are orientated, I can then go on to explain the real details and tenents of my faith.
No big deal.
February 2, 2009 at 9:27 pm
@PG – You should read some of Vivekananda’s writings… being amongst the only credible Hindu missionaries… he clearly states that the underlying basis of conversion to Hinduism must be the acceptance of the Hindu way of life.
While there is no monolithic Hinduism, there are certainly underlying principles that unites the different faiths that comprise Hinduism.
Clearly – you joined a Vaisnav sect in Bengal… that leaves us with primarily ISKCON and Gaudiya Vaisnavites… the latter of whom love/worship all beings as they see Krsna’s presence in everything. Which PG clearly fails to do. So… iskcon?
February 2, 2009 at 10:45 pm
By all means NO. Not ISKCON.
My sect is not keen on Vivekananda either.
We have very specific tenents and ideals. Vivekananda appears to be kitchri mix of generic “Hinduism”. Like I said, we don’t consider ourselves “Hindu”, not even the Indian members of our sect. However, when they need to be classified for whatever practical purpose, they will say “Hindu” rather than “Muslim” or “Jain” or “Sikh” or whatever. It’s just an orientating misnomer.
I also respect all beings. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with them.
“he clearly states that the underlying basis of conversion to Hinduism must be the acceptance of the Hindu way of life”
First you said marriage to a Hindu, now you are saying “acceptance of the Hindu way of life”
Which one is it and please clarify what you mean by the “Hindu way of life”???
I have accepted the vaishnava way of life and that works for me.
What is YOUR problem with it yaar?
February 2, 2009 at 11:30 pm
why are you so reluctant to name this “very specific sect”?
February 2, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Because it has nothing to do with the topic of intercultural relationships.
I’m usually very private about my sectarian involvement. My practice is a personal thing. We are a vaishnava sect. Doesn’t that tell you enough?
I am really not keen on divisive sectarian consciousness anyway. Prem is my religion.
My heart is capable of every form;
A cloister for the monk,
a temple for the idol,
a pasture for gazelles,
a votary’s Kaaba,
a table for the Thora,
a cloth for the Quran.
Love is the creed I hold.
Wherever turn His camel, love is still my religion.
-Ibn Arabi
February 2, 2009 at 11:55 pm
If your heart is capable of every form why can’t you love the brown man?!?!?!?
February 3, 2009 at 12:02 am
Ha. Ha. Good one. I do love the brown man, in a universal way.
February 6, 2009 at 1:36 am
Pardesi Gori,
I am loathe to feed a troll, but you are such an engaging one. It is interesting that you go all over the net to trash Indian men, which shows a certain level of obsession with the very desi man you purport to not want to date. Maybe the problem is more that no desi man has wanted to date you, and I would venture no white man has either. You remind me of nerdy-outcast girls from college I used to see, ones who hung around the international students because years of bullying in high school have made her completely incapable of having a normal conversation with anyone, and international students, with their general unease with a new culture, was a safer and more comforting social option. But finding that desi men don’t want you either has really rattled you as you enter your, what, mid 30s, maybe?
Listen, instead of going all over the interwebs bashing desi men, take the time to stop, pause, and look inward. You are probably in India because you couldn’t find peace in America. You are not finding peace in India, either, judging by the venom that you spew. The problem is not desi men, dear, it’s you.
February 6, 2009 at 2:29 am
Trust me Anjali, our friend Pardesi aint nothin’ compared to our old buddy BGS!!
February 6, 2009 at 2:58 am
haha. The thing with PG though is that she claims to have spent so much time in India… purportedly as guests of Indian families… and just to think the putrid feelings in her heart while she mooched off them for over a decade!
BGS was atleast an isolationist… she had ignorance on her side…
LOL
February 6, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Anjali, I think you hit the nail on the head! I’ve been thinking the same thing but you put it much more eloquently than I would’ve.
LOL @ Aditya.
February 6, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Fanjali and Adidya,
I did not “mooch” off of anyone in India. I paid my way everywhere, including the “white tax”, which is what? The equivalent of the Musselman’s jizya?
No desi man wanting me? I could only wish they viewed me as “untouchable”. They can’t keep their hands off my supple VITE flesh, unfortunately, ala “eve teasing”. If you’ve ever been a female in India, you know what I’m talking about.
Aside from the day to day sexual harrassement there were a few interested for more serious “relations” as they say.
But that’s nothing to brag about, is it?
The funny thing is, I prefer to be alone, autonomous and celibate, but it seems wherever I go there’s always some dude trying to break my pattern. So no, I have no problem in that department, from any ethnic background.
I thought I made it clear that I don’t hate Indians or India itself. I just don’t like the rampant gender bias of the place. Without that, it could almost be a paradise!
As far as not finding “peace” in USA. I’m more “peaceful” here than in India what with all the jagrans blasting over the loudspeakers 24/7 at times.
I actually have no problem anywhere I go with anything, but if gender bias and sexual harrassement are rampant, then yeah, as a woman I have a BIG problem with that sh*t and why should I shut up about it?
February 7, 2009 at 12:24 am
“They can’t keep their hands off my supple VITE flesh [...] If you’ve ever been a female in India, you know what I’m talking about.”
LOL They must’ve mistaken you for Aishwarya Rai.
While I have not personally been a female in India, I know a few thousand women who have… and none of them seem to have attracted amount of “touching” that you seemed to have had…
Of course, if we’re talking about within the Iskcon compounds, then that’s hardly surprising…
February 7, 2009 at 12:28 am
“but it seems wherever I go there’s always some dude trying to break my pattern”
have you noticed other people interacting with this “dude”? Or is this like your [imaginary] Classical Bengali Poet (who can be mistaken for an Arabian prince)?
February 7, 2009 at 7:16 am
Ididya,
Get a life. And a new wife.
You are just a goofy gaon walla, from what I can tell.
I have already stated I have nothing to do with Iskcon, but as far as I have heard, the insides of Iskcon compounds are pretty safe compared to the surrounding streets.
Perhaps you read the news that one young iskcon girl was raped and killed outside of one of their compounds by a local Munnabhai in India? Is that what you are referring to? If so, shame on you for making light of her tragedy. But again, it took place OUTSIDE of their compound.
As far as the “thousands” of Indian women you know, maybe they just don’t TELL YOU that they are harrassed? You see in India it is such a common experience that many women often think it is a normal part of life that they just have to tolerate.
You can read about that here;
http://blog.blanknoise.org/
The classicly good looking bengali artist/poet dude was not imaginary.
Jealous much? What – are you short, patla and saundarya-heen or something?
Don’t bother responding to my comment. Just read it, check out the site referred to, and get on with your life.
In India I pay no mind to Rinkus and Pinkus like you and I see no reason I should start paying that sector any mind here.
Ma, bhein, bibi habe na?
February 7, 2009 at 4:47 pm
I just feel like Pardesi is like all the other Americans who watch Slumdog Millionaire and think that’s what India’s all about.
India is a place of many things: contradictions, the dark, the light, the good and the bad. It’s the epitome of the tension of opposites–and that’s a hard one for simple minds to grapple with.
February 7, 2009 at 5:01 pm
@PG
you are absolutely right… I need to get a new wife – hopefully one of the same race, religion, sub-culture et al?
And yes, I don’t know _any_ white women who’ve been to India… because YOU are the only white woman who has ever been to India…
and what happened to your so-called trip to Lalaland…
February 7, 2009 at 5:07 pm
@NK Amen.
February 7, 2009 at 7:39 pm
NeoKalypso
I’ve lived in India for half of my life.
I know all about the “tension of opposites”.
That tension is part of the cultural reasons behind eve-teasing.
I don’t watch movies like Slumkuta Crorepati in order to “understand” India. I don’t have to. I live there.
I’m not a culturally deprived product of divorce white girl looking for culture and stability elsewhere. I don’t need to deny the negative aspects of Indian culture in order to proove to the Indian dude I sleep with that I’m potential wife material.
You obviously have reading comprehension skills because you were unable to read that I love many things about India and her culture(s) but the gender bias and sexual harrassement ruin much of it. Now, wouldn’t that qualify as a “tension of opposites”?
Go back to watching your movies.
February 8, 2009 at 6:45 pm
This chick is miserable. Future comments will be deleted.
February 11, 2009 at 1:06 am
There appears to be a clash of civilizations going on within India that affect women more than men. That is perhaps why you and Pardesi Gori recognize it more than Aditya.
One example can be found in the latest events rocking Mangalore described by the efforts of the pink underwear coalition here;
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/09/world/asia/09india.html?_r=1
February 18, 2009 at 6:18 am
Wow, I really missed the fight haha.. sorry I’ve been MIA, not feeling well. I’ll try to put up a newer post on my blog soon for an update.
July 2, 2009 at 10:48 am
“I thought I made it clear that I don’t hate Indians or India itself. I just don’t like the rampant gender bias of the place. Without that, it could almost be a paradise!”
have to agree with Pardesi Gori’s statememt above – the sexual harassment(eveteasing) in India is just horrible. I’m indian, I’ve lived in India for 27 years, in the US for 4 years, love living in both India and US and think both the cultures are wonderful. I will be moving back to India and am v happy abt it, the only fly in the ointment is the awful, horrible harassment that goes on for women there. Like aditya I’ve met a lot of otherwise nice Indian men who just refuse to believe that their sisters, mothers, wives, friends are going through this and have been facing this for a long time. Please do read the blank noise.org website, its an eyeopener. Neither me nor my friends are aishwarya rais, not even anything close LOL, however I do not know of even 1 indian girl/woman who hasnt been sexually harassed/eve-teased atleast once in their life – this is really sad. This is a silent epidemic and we really need to figure out how to reduce and stop this.